Why is the photography community so toxic?

John Aldred

John Aldred is a photographer with over 25 years of experience in the portrait and commercial worlds. He is based in Scotland and has been an early adopter – and occasional beta tester – of almost every digital imaging technology in that time. As well as his creative visual work, John uses 3D printing, electronics and programming to create his own photography and filmmaking tools and consults for a number of brands across the industry.

YouTube video

This is a pretty interesting video from Manny Ortiz talking about an observation that I think a lot of people have come to notice over the last couple of years. And that’s that the photography community, particularly online, can be extremely toxic. To the point where I’ve actually seen people give up photography completely due to the harrassment they’ve received online.

Is it the same in the real world? outside of Facebook and other social media? That’s what Manny believes, but I’m not entirely sure. It definitely exists more online, but it’s still definitely out there in the real world, too.

I’ve just spent the last few days at The Photography Show here in the UK. I’ve been surrounded by some of the industry’s absolute best photographers, retouchers and others in the industry who are genuinely excited about the work they create, the work that others create, and building each other up. I’m also in a couple of Facebook groups with these same people, and they are wonderful places to be online to talk about work and photography topics. There were also many amateurs and hobbyists at the show with whom I chatted who were equally passionate about the sense of community within the world of photography.

The sense of positivity was overwhelming.

But there are many online groups on Facebook and other social media, not to mention the YouTube comments section, where the atmosphere is the opposite. Completely and absolutely toxic. People who only seem to exist to put other people down to make themselves feel better. And I did come across a handful of people (varying from names you know to complete beginners) showing this same attitude in the real world during the show, too.

Manny describes one particular interaction that I didn’t experience the show this year, but I have in the past. People I’ve met online having terrible attitudes, and then being nice to my face once we meet in person. But I’ve also experienced assholes on social media who were still assholes in person, too. Although the latter definitely seems to be the minority.

There is definitely a prevalence of such attitudes online that often doesn’t translate to the real world. So many armchair experts who think they’re better than everybody else. That their opinion is the only one that matters – an opinion they often spout off as fact with nothing to back it up, and then get even worse attitudes when you ask them to prove their claims. So many keyboard warriors.

But why? Why is it that people can’t seem to just get along online? Why can’t we all work to build each other up? I’m constantly looking on social media for inspiring and amazing (and positive!) photographers and other creatives to feature here on DIYP. Why do people often feel the need to belittle others to try to make themselves feel better? And what can we do about it?

Well, for a start, we can choose to not be a dick on social media. And if others are doing it to you, just utilise the block button. I’ve found that Facebook becomes a much more pleasant and positive place once you start to add a few hundred people to your block list and no longer have to see their nonsense and bad attitudes. Most of the time, I don’t even remember their name 5 minutes after I block them. I’m up to 948 people on my list right now (I might have a little party when I hit 1K), that have been added over the last couple of years, and I’ve left several groups completely as the attitude has not only been accepted but started to become the norm there.

In the photography community’s defence, though, I don’t think this is a photography-specific thing. It’s just an online thing. I see the same thing in 3D printing, electronics, engineering and many other online communities, too. It just seems to be something about social media that brings out the worst in people.

Manny thinks that it’s mostly down to insecurity and jealousy. And I think he might be right. Most of us don’t live with or regularly hang out with people who even understand half of what we’re talking about. And as human beings, we need that validation. So, a lot like to assert their dominance online to prove to people how much they know. Personally, I always thought the final result did that – but many of those with such attitudes rarely post images.

I think part of the problem, too, is that text is an imperfect medium. It can be difficult to get across when you’re making a joke or being a little sarcastic in a quick Facebook comment. Then somebody takes it the wrong way and suddenly you’re mortal enemies for the rest of your days. Well, unless you meet in person.

Miscommunication happens online all the time. Most of the things that people say can be taken in multiple ways. Don’t always assume they mean the worst one. And when their meaning is obvious? Well, you know what to do. Don’t be a dick, and embrace the block button.

What do you think? Do you see more toxicity in online photography communities? Do you see more in the real world? What do you do to try and minimise your own contribution to it? And how do you deal with it when you see others doing it?

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John Aldred

John Aldred

John Aldred is a photographer with over 25 years of experience in the portrait and commercial worlds. He is based in Scotland and has been an early adopter – and occasional beta tester – of almost every digital imaging technology in that time. As well as his creative visual work, John uses 3D printing, electronics and programming to create his own photography and filmmaking tools and consults for a number of brands across the industry.

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18 responses to “Why is the photography community so toxic?”

  1. stewart norton Avatar
    stewart norton

    It’s definitely jealousy, I’ve seen many posts here where somone has done amazing work and people have picked it to bits, and I guarantee you the people who are the worst critics work will be nowhere as good as the person they are criticised and when challenged they will make excuses like the other person had better kit or in some other way had a “unfair” advantage. As the saying goes if you can’t say something nice don’t say anything, if someone asks for construcive criticism and you are in a position to give it ( ie you can display a better level of knowledge or skill) then give just that. If your work is crap perhaps your time would be better spent honing your skill than sat bitter in front of a computer .

  2. Conny Wallstrom Avatar
    Conny Wallstrom

    I haven’t seen much of this at all. It’s far better then just about any online community that I participate in. Majority of people is friendly and helpful. Why not just leave the toxic groups?

    1. Conny Wallstrom Avatar
      Conny Wallstrom

      Deal with it just like anything in real life. If you find rotten apples, throw em away. If it’s just one person, block them. If it’s a whole group, leave it. There are plenty of friendly ones.

  3. Henry Rodgers Avatar
    Henry Rodgers

    It’s the combo of YouTube hacks posing as pros for clicks, and the general lack of respect for others that is the internet.

  4. Adrian Gordon Avatar
    Adrian Gordon

    Because those who are successful are often spiteful and elitist, willing to tread on, report or otherwise hamper those who are in the same place at the same time they view as a threat. (Experience of this personally)
    The buyers-market of photography work, where everybody can be a ‘pro’ by picking up a camera and marketing themselves as such without much experience to back it up has made people bitter and resentful of the race to the bottom pricing structure.
    Even once you have experience and you can justify charging more for your work, based on proven results, you’re still expected to undercut people who just picked up a camera a few weeks ago and shot a few pieces for their portfolio. You’re compared to them on a price point not on a results level it’s no surprise that people end up bitter and bitterness breeds toxicity.

  5. Tom Dahm Avatar
    Tom Dahm

    I stay away from instagram culture.

    1. Paul Tobeck Avatar
      Paul Tobeck

      I actually see much less of the dickhead comments on Instagram than anywhere else, but it could be more of who I follow. I quit using Twitter a long time ago because of this, and sorely wish I could dump FB, but I still have business pages there that bring traffic and too many friends for whom it’s their only social platform.
      I’m not sure sure what’s worse, the general dickhead trolls or the elitist snobs (gear, et al), but they infect every industry, hobby and interest page over the entire interwebs.

  6. bjarnewinkler Avatar
    bjarnewinkler

    Not so fast. I run Sacramento Photographers on Facebook with near 9K members and we are having a blast and can be nice to each other. So there is hope!

    1. gtvone Avatar
      gtvone

      Howdy! – I run the dPS group (Just about to cross 120k members) and it’s largely nice, until it isn’t and then it’s not… and then I ban the toxic one and it goes back to nice! I find groups easy, we can cut out the rotten wood – Harder on other platforms I spose. I’d love to see your group, if you’re able to drop a link?

      1. bjarnewinkler Avatar
        bjarnewinkler

        Nice and yes from time to time you need to remove a bad apple. But good leadership = good group.
        Is dPS on Facebook and is so post a link.

        My group is https://www.facebook.com/groups/SacramentoPhotographersCA/

  7. Gayle Bevan Avatar
    Gayle Bevan

    Come across lots of jealousy in photography. I prefer just to support others, give credit where its due and aspire to do better than I did yesterday.

  8. Peter Young Avatar
    Peter Young

    Get nasty , get removed. (MY FB site anyway) That being said I agree with everything you pointed out accept the ego’s don’t just relate to Photographers. Everyone that decides they are a photographer for whatever reason.They may own a phone or were given a camera as a present, for whatever reason, they are photographers and no one is going to tell them otherwise.

    As many of these beginners/amateurs populate the photographic world they also bring there baggage along with them. The larger the population the more likely you are going to get the “know it all’s” the “arrogant” the “trolls”

    Always keeping in mind the online community is blind so to speak, like the child covering their eyes, with the mind set that If I can’t see them then they can’t see me………….Its a safe world in front of the PC…………but when confronted it’s all to easy to duck and pretend that all is well in the world.

    If you had stopped the “online antagonist” (All trolls in my book) and asked him why? his possible/likely reply would have been, “ahh its just funnin” or “don’t know what you are talking about” OR “Don’t take it so serious” He would not have said “it’s because I’m an AHole”

    Has nothing to do with photography just population of the entire online community…. IMHO anyway

  9. murhaaya Avatar
    murhaaya

    I’d take that guy up on his offer and have him show me around and have a chat with him. That might have been interesting.

    Photographers are not a small niche community. It’s pretty huge community. Everybody with DSLR or ILC is not a photographer and the camera around his neck entitles him to “opinions”. So it’s not like we are tight community a brotherhood that sticks together.

    While not excusing or dimnishing the amount of hatred and toxicity being spewed across the internet, sometimes it’s just well meant (but maybe not well formed) feedback that the receiving end is not willing to accept. I see this in our closed forums where people post photos to get feedback. Now think what you want about feedback on your photos from strangers on the internet but it still can have some value. People post terrible photos, we point out the flaws (I try to be on point and stray from anything that could be interpreted as a personal attack) suggest, compare but people start kicking back, fighting for photos that should have been deleted in the first place and discussion goes south real fast. Just because the OP cannot take criticism.

    The other thing I noticed while commenting, and it is happening right now as I type, is that when I try to formulate a meaningful comment. Maybe outline my disagreements in a way that does not feel hostile I end up writing paragraphs of text. They rarely get any upvotes while the “FIRST” comment that contains usually more or less (usually less) witty, snarky and aggressive remark is upvoted like crazy. People are incentivized for writting in short aggressive (trolling) manner. Plus even if the comment is not meant in a negative way, the fact that is short, devoid of context allows for very easy negative interpretation.

    That’s not to say there are trolls and harassers on top of that :/

  10. gtvone Avatar
    gtvone

    Toxicity, in the photo community?! WHAT!? …oh, err… Since I started moderating Digital Photography School forums in 2006, Toxicity has been lurking. After managing social for some photo brands for just over ten years now, toxicity is really bloody depressing and a daily part of various bits of this amazing industry that we love. I’ve had to change my approach to dealing with it – I’d go as far as saying it attributed to some of my crazy anxiety a couple years back. Life is short, ignore or block toxic people. If I’m dealing with them on a business level for a client, I thank them for their feedback. Look out for each other and have empathy.

  11. Steve Huletty Avatar
    Steve Huletty

    I think these are the same folks that review a product and claim it awful because their idea of some minor color difference or a product is not packaged the way they wanted. If you let these people with no life bother you, you are going to to live as miserable of life as them.

  12. Fernando Adrian Avatar
    Fernando Adrian

    Ha!, toxic?… try videogames community!